terry: now that you mentioned cortisol, ithink that fundamental to so many diseases that we see is excess stress without question. nick: stress is a killer. terry: in my practice, a lot of people whoare very high performing individuals are looking for optimal wellness. they're successful intheir businesses. they're exercising. they're
eating well. they're doing everything right.they're taking supplements. they're doing detox, but the one thing i think that so manyof them are doing a bad job on is controlling stress. and virtually all of them, if i say,"what's your stress level?" it's off the chart. i think that cortisol is an incredibly toxichormone in our bodies and we need to take
-- nick: in high levels? terry: yes. we only need a little bit. weneed a little bit, but you know, we're cavemen and cavewomen and back then, we laid aroundand relaxed all day long and every once in a while, we got a jolt of this cortisol whendanger occurred and we needed it, but now we're just operating at a fairly high levelof cortisol all the time and i'm not sure that�s very healthy for us. nick: and dr. james wilson in his book, adrenalfatigue, states that there's a point though even worse where yes, you're living on a cortisolrush, but then eventually you can't produce
enough cortisol, it drops, then you're livingon adrenaline, which he states is even a more harmful hormone to live off of. that is fightor flight and you're constantly in this fight or flight feeling. terry: oh, absolutely. that's why a very commoncondition like sleep apnea is so devastating in terms of being not just a risk for daytimesleepiness, but it's a risk for heart attacks and high blood pressure. why is that? becausewhen you sleep at night and stop breathing, characteristics of sleep apnea, which i thinkaffects close to 25% of the adult population, your heart rate slows way down during thisperiod of time. what gets things going again is a jolt of adrenaline, so you're just constantlygiving yourself these jolts of adrenaline
through the night, which is very toxic foryour heart. so you're right, this whole started from the4-point testing. when we do the adrenal stress index, we look at typically salivary levelsbecause no one wants to do blood four times a day. and healthy people, which is so rarewhen i do the test, will start with very high levels in the morning, drop by about halfat lunchtime, be relatively low at supper, and then by bedtime be almost nothing. thisis the normal curve, but i doubt that one in five patients that i test has anythinglike that. most people, they're almost flatlined. nick: well, what if they have initially verymajor difficulty getting up in the morning and their cortisol levels are measured extremelylow below optimum levels and they barely start
to peak up in the afternoon as they race towardsthe evening, then there are night people that are finally coming awake and they stay uptoo late and then it starts a vicious cycle all over again? according to dr. edwin lee,he's stated that adrenal fatigue really does exist. many endocrinologists deny that itexists, but apparently the evidence is starting to show that people do have chronic fatigueand oftentimes related to poor adrenal function. terry: right. i think that the problem withconventional endocrinology thought is they're very black and white. they look at the normallevels of testosterone and they'll say okay, it's 348 to 1198 for men. if your level is351, you're normal, nothing to worry about, whereas most men who have a testosterone levelof 351 do not feel very good and they'll do
the same thing with cortisol. they don�tbelieve in what we refer to as hypoadrenalism which affects so many people because they'restressed out for so long. what they do believe in, it's the same white or black idea. eitheryou have cushing's disease, you have adrenal fatigue, or you don�t, whereas i think usin the -- nick: or you have addison's. terry: addison's or whatever disease you mayhave. it's you either have the disease or you don�t have the disease. and for us incomplementary medicine, we like to look at the grays, and so many people, they don�treally have adrenal fatigue, addison's disease, but they do have adrenal letdown. it justdoesn�t work as well as it should. and i
think these people -- normally it should behigh in the morning and they go down through the day. you've mentioned a case where it'slow in the morning and it goes up at night. i think for people like this, they could takesome naturals, [0:04:50] [indiscernible] cortisol or licorice extracts or things like that inthe morning to boost the levels not so much to treat the condition as much as to restthe adrenals, so the adrenals can go to hawaii and take it easy for a while. and after about6 to 12 months, they'll get better. [0:05:06] the other thing we can do if they're upsidedown and the levels go up at night and they're night owls is use things like light boxesor exposure to sunlight so that people can
reset their circadian rhythms. i think bothare good. nick: that makes sense. of course, when youlook at the use of, say, thyroid granulars, we know that's effective for thyroid, adrenalglands or pituitary fineness, again, dr. wilson stated that about 80% of the glandular withtracers ends up in the actual organ to rejuvenate that organ. he believes that you can actuallyrepair these organs and those people with chronic fatigue and extreme distress disorder.so when we're looking at that toolbox, akinesia, ashwagandha, some of the silymarin for theliver and dmg, dimethylglycine, in the adrenal cortex, how do you feel about the interventionwith these herbs and some of the glandulars? terry: well, i think that they make a lotof sense. i think you're right. an additional
problem that is incredibly common among ourpatients is fatigue. fatigue itself i think is a presenting complaint for perhaps themajority of patients that come to see -- nick: vast majority. terry: yeah, and then chronic fatigue syndrome,which is a devastating illness affecting up to 8% of the population at large, these peopleare trashed. they can't work. i mean -- nick: and coffee doesn�t work for them.it makes it worse oftentimes. terry: they really are in bad shape. i liketo follow dr. tattelbaum's protocol which he calls shine and the first thing he workson is how people get quality sleep, and then the second thing he works on is hormones,which we're talking about, inflammation and
infections, nutrition and exercise. so with the hormones, i think that for allof our patients with fatigue particularly those with chronic fatigue, we need to lookat all of the different hormones, the endocrine hormones that you've mentioned, the sex hormones,so the testosterone, the estrogen, the progesterone. we really need to look at the thyroid hormones.so if you're talking about glandular or thyroid replacement or natural thyroid replacement,i think that's absolutely essential, and also the adrenal hormones, the cortisol, and thenwhat you referred to as the adaptogens, so the things like the ashwagandha, like theginseng, cordyceps, things like that, i think that they can help a lot, so we can providesome support and we can also supply the hormones
if we need to, whatever is best for that particularpatient. nick: dr. terry grossman, that was an amazingdiscourse about chronic fatigue, hormone intervention. please subscribe to our youtube channel andcomment about this interview. and any other facts that you want to learn about or questionsyou want to ask, please interplay with us. thank you and wait for our next segment withdr. terry grossman and other expert anti-aging physicians. thank you. 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